Wednesday, August 20, 2008

Last Best Hope

Well my last, best hope for staying in the city I now call home was just flushed. I got a letter saying the firm would not be able to make a decision before BigLaw needs an answer from me. I'll try to find something in town but I can't turn away that much cash on the hope that someone will come to their senses in the spring.


Sx_2elFpg_6t8U9d8wJWWVHNlXI892sR said...

(Laughing) What happened to that comment? Knowing the source (s)he'll just repost if (s)he ever checks back. It was right on, btw, you probably should tone down the arrogance. You guys sure think a lot of yourselves and you're "intellectual prowess" (hahahahaha). I forget, law review anyone? Where? HLR, YLJ?

I expected to see a scathing retort. I wish you could hear the dissapointment in my voice.

El Guapo said...

That's fine. The only reason the post was deleted was that it mentioned too many place names. Obviously, our anonymity is very limited but we don't like to flaunt it. I tried to see if I could redact names and keep the post since it did make some points not often made on our blog. Here's the thing.

No, we do not go to Harvard or Yale. We go to a good state school. It's top 40 in the country. We are ranked ahead of traditional powers UNC and Tulane. We don't know where her school ranks other than to say it isn't in the top 104. It is a good school. I admire their trial ad program. But very few people go to that school that got into our school. Our school is higher rated and cheaper. Their average LSAT was 157. Ours was 164. They have a good law school. But our schools are not the same. They were 20 years ago but things have changed.

El Guapo said...

Oh, the most interesting point was her assertion that employers would hire only our grads and none of theirs if it was in their economic self interest to do so. That is a strong argument but I think that Michael Lewis's Moneyball shows that tradition is a hard beast to kill in any industry. Maybe I'll change my mind when I get out there. And no person with the very long open id name, you won't get much scathing. I try to be nice about it.

Sorry if I offended with the comment. I'm just a little frustrated this week.

Sx_2elFpg_6t8U9d8wJWWVHNlXI892sR said...

Assumptions. They're the damndest (sp?) things. I was sitting with him (not her) he came across it. He didn't go to Cumberland, not sure what you based that one on (since I didn't get to read it). Based on his remarks while posting, his take would be that while he went to Vandy/Duke/UVa/UT Austin (not my place to compromise whatever cloak he seeks to maintain), he wouldn't ever presume to scorn a school like you saw fit to do.

(I'm relying on our discussion following the post.) Here's what you you still seem to miss:

1) The US News ranking argument fails b/c outside the T6/14, class rank matters more than school rank. Mostly b/c there's too much variance b/w students re undergrad major, connections, indicators of work ethic, personality, and frankly value of a degree in a given geographic area. Finally, from what I understand, the bottom 20% at this school substantially pulls down the lsat mean. You aren't competing with them (the bottom half at both are lucky to find jobs), so it's wholly n/a.

2) The cost of tuition argument fails, as least as applicable to your argument/disposition. The students you compete w/ for these jobs are in the top 15-20% at the "short bus" school (poor use of hyperbole or whatever it is). There mostly on scholarship.

3) Maybe most importantly, you misunderstood the economic incentive point as I heard it. The disparity, as you describe it, is so dramatic that it would necessarily deprive these partners who allow their firms to continue to hire based on tradition, affiliation, etc. much more than logic dictates persons of their nature would be willing to absorb. They will only continue these practices so long as the difference in quality of associates/money in their pockets is slight to nonexistent, and absolutely beyond quantification. It's a point on a continuum, not an idea in absolution.

If that's not clear, and I'm not sure it is, maybe this helps: given the choice of equal opportunity to hire from John Marshall (local school here, not sure if it's accredited) and Harvard, 100% of HLS grads will get a job, and only to the extent jobs remain thereafter are the students of the former placed. As much as you feel the disparity in your case approaches the one I described, it doesn't.

In short, your belief is unfounded. Bama's a good law school, but neither the name nor the quality of student is enough to distinguish it over that of top 10-15% students at other local schools (even if US News says otherwise). I don't have a dog in the fight, I was fortunate enough to go to HYS; the only thing I gained was security (both in law school and after). The market's more efficient than you allow believe, even if not perfectly so.

No idea why the URL shows up that way.

Sx_2elFpg_6t8U9d8wJWWVHNlXI892sR said...

And as for spelling/grammar (e.g., their/there), I'm still not near the end of a 16 hr day. Doesn't make me any less obsessive about it, unfortunately.

El Guapo said...

Don't worry, I don't jump on spelling on the internet. ;)

I'll agree with you this far. Our name hasn't caught up with our quality. We wish our OCI was more aggressive in marketing what we have.

I'll also agree that I think the market will catch up. Just a shame it'll drive me out of state before it does. Truth is, I'm looking for a very specific job. Not at a Big Firm. I'll take the good offer I have but I'm just scratching around the edges looking for a job at a small, boutique firm.

The legal market it slow as hell right now and the law students are feeling the pinch.

Sx_2elFpg_6t8U9d8wJWWVHNlXI892sR said...

The market has caught up; you said as much in a previous post (it's been 20 yrs since the two have been considered the same). Objective bottome line: you're school isn't as much better as you'd like to believe. You can't stop interjecting facts favorable to your conceptual misprognosis while ignoring those necessarily implied by the same. Don't have time to explain it, just think it over.

Sx_2elFpg_6t8U9d8wJWWVHNlXI892sR said...

I don't know why, but these sort of debates plauge me; maybe I most want to be a law prof on some level.

Take something I think would be more germane. More likely to be upset: (a) No. 1 UGA v. No. 23 Wake Forest, or (b) No. 80 Vandy v. No. 113 UTEP? The answer, if your money's on the line, is the latter. Point being, once rankings depart from the realm of concern, no one gives as much attention to ensuring their accuracy.

El Guapo said...

Yes but we are talking more just outside the top 25 Florida State, Boston College, California, or Pittsburgh (lifted from preseason poll) losing to UTEP. Not the shocker of 1 losing to 23 but a surprise nonetheless.

Is the entire basis of the other side that you have the top ten law schools in america and everything else that is accreditted is indistinguihsable?